I met Jack, he didnt like me.

[theeradicaleclectic]

Gotta say, my [very limited] impression of Mr. White has really been shaken by this whole situation. I just never expected him to be such a straight-up jerk to a fan. Doesn't Third Man Records pride itself in being a "fan's record label?" Then it's founder won't even sign a limited-release vinyl for a true fan??? It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

But all any of the rest of us know of this situation is that fan's impression of what happened...could have misread Jack's tone of voice, could have been unaware of circumstances, could have misrepresented what actually occurred...be rational about it and don't take it personally. You're just one more out of thousands of people who've made that same request.

Nice touch there ... something more for the peasants who represent the one-more-of-the-thousands who pay TMR bills ??? we know what we know and that counts for the unspoken agreement of being a Jack white fan to the person who markets to us nearly weekly

Personally i can safely say that jack has seen and dealt with hundreds of thousands of fans in his lifetime and might need to prioritize personal issues first but then again i feel like i keep making this point over and over in this discussion. He really is in his own world doing his own thing and suffering his own mortal being and psychological impacts regardless of what the dollar 'wants' or the endless demand of the crowd calls for as his 'public persona' that throng to him for who knows what reason in their own heads...

Fact is that not everyone gets the personal conversation so its possible that marketing to all these people who make the personal connection themselves has a side effect and an intrinsic downside

So some folks might believe this: "Ultimately i think none of us can know what jack has been through in his life with fans or specific situations thus we have to understand a hardened exterior jack offers as a part of his intrinsic nature>>> Its possible even children at one of his events will meet the real Jack when he has his own concerns on the forefront of his mind and cannot put forth the effort to be the adoring celebrity if he is not feeling that ... basically its a given what we know about his songs and his heart felt attitudes... he wears his heart on his sleeve??

Or we can try to reason through that and arrive at this idea: "No one can be what everyone wants them to be all the time" ... this might be the point of view you are looking for with that statement?? well i think this is likely part of the issue as well .. but...

Lets get real... Dont all of us like the fact that Jack writes asshole music for us to express ourselves to privately when we get pissed at the tens of thousands of things which life tosses off haplessly to piss us off enough to need to scream about it? NO this isnt you??? (please excuse me if some of you are not picking up on this side of the Jack White/TMR attitude but it seems like a given in most of his fan-based websites too)

its obvious the guy has written enough 'sensitive songs' and 'asshole attitude songs' that we get a sense for who he really is in a variety of situations despite the fact that we dont know what side of the live wire that we are on in the moment when we meet up with the man given that the situation should arise... Seriously just take it for what it is and let yourself know the truth here...

one line of his tells you just how the guy can be at any given time "now go away and do not leave a trace" ... lets face the fact that it is not a line that you just toss out when you dont feel well... Right?? This is a study in how to be a supreme ass when one needs to be to make ones point clear... it is a part of who Jack is really

When it comes down to it I am sure the answer is closer to this 'i got 99 problems and a bitch aint one' like rsimms had to say about it and of course JayZ... i believe this to be closer to the answer after endless days and cities on the tour ... and thats that as the price fans pay for dragging the man away from his home night after night after technical problem after physical stress and strain... so we are lucky to get him at all even when we shovel out the gold that he puts on his ceiling /// wink wink nudge nudge...

[arewhyehen]

Alright, I'm going to give my two cents on this one.

I think what it comes down to is Jack White, Dead Weather, White Stripes, Raconteurs....Third Man Records, etc.; these are all businesses and one thing I've learnt from work is that the customer is always right. I've delt with some crazy clients who were totally wrong but when you're trying to make money or get a sale, the customer is always right. We as the fans and collectors are all his customers and should be treated well like we would be at most other businesses.

I'm not saying Jack White is an asshole, but when you start to turn into one it really turns people off from your music and your live shows and that hurts your business. Take Axl Rose from GnR for example...I know it's an extreme example but he's known to be a huge asshole and constantly not show up for concerts or show up hours late and many people refuse to go see him live now. They are still Guns and Roses and will always have a huge fan base but it's slowly dying because of him.

If jack does not want to be bothered after a show than that's fine but he should request that nobody is allowed back stage for VIP treatment or any of that crap. Request a room to go to or somewhere he can go to relax and be alone or only have specific people there.

I don't know, I'm just rambling...all I know if that I deal with plenty of people at work all the time that I hate or that is wrong and I put a smile on and deal with it.

[patchwork]

i have had the chance over the years to meet and hang out with a lot of different musicians and there have only been 2 that were not friendly. all of them ( except the 2 assholes ) were happy to sign my guitar or poster or whatever i might have had with me. i have seen jack a few times since first seeing the stripes in 03 and i have never seen him come out and sign or talk to fans after a show. i imagine if people were coming up to me all the time asking me for my autograph it would weird me out and annoy me but thats because im not famous. jack chose to be a musician and to put himself out there and its because of us that he can play in front of thousands of people and can live this lifestyle that he lives , so when a fan comes up backstage and asks for an autograph he needs to smile sign that shit and say thanks for coming out. dont bite the hand that feeds you


also now that i have thought about this does anybody know if there was a poster for the stone mountain show? if so pm me

[DeeBee]

one thing I've learnt from work is that the customer is always right. I've delt with some crazy clients who were totally wrong but when you're trying to make money or get a sale, the customer is always right. We as the fans and collectors are all his customers and should be treated well like we would be at most other businesses. ... I deal with plenty of people at work all the time that I hate or that is wrong and I put a smile on and deal with it.

But that's an employee's perspective, right? You need to always treat customers with courtesy because your boss might fire you if you don't. But if you're the boss or the owner, then you have more leeway. I've run into any number of rude and surly proprietors of small businesses over the years. If they have more customers than they need, then it's really no skin off their back if they lose a few. And if it's a big business, they worry even less about it. Given how many fans Jack White has, I doubt that he's afraid of losing a few here and there. I'm not saying that he's rude and surly because of that, because we just can't tell anything from a few isolated stories here and there. But we all have our moods, like people have been saying. My point here is just that he does not need to worry much about losing business. If he's a nice guy, it's probably because he's genuinely a nice guy, and not because he's just acting nice in order to keep his customers. And if he's in a bad mood for whatever reason, then that's probably genuine too. But you can't even begin to compare him with a jerk like Axl Rose, who has made an art of acting like a spoiled brat. (The latest thing I heard is that he told his security guards to refuse entry to concert ticket-holders who are wearing Slash t-shirts. One guy even offered to turn the shirt inside out to cover the verboten Slash image; but the guards kicked him out anyway.)

We have no idea what kind of stresses other people are under, most of the time; and no doubt dealing with fans' high hopes and expectations is one more stress on top of everything else. It must be a hard thing to deal with, knowing that for each and every fan it's a once-in-a-lifetime moment that they have a huge stake in, while for the rock star it's a steady endless stream of nameless fans that all kind of blur together. Probably it feels like walking through a mosquito-infested jungle at times, with a million tiny buzzing missiles all darting your way for a quick bite. The urge to just swat them away must be overwhelming at times. No matter how many of them you try to accommodate, or how nicely and politely you squelch your own feelings about it, there are always a hundred times that many who are feeling crushed that they didn't get their magic moment of fandom to cherish forever. It must become quite maddening in the long run.

Be rational about it and don't take it personally. You're just one more out of thousands of people who've made that same request...

jack has seen and dealt with hundreds of thousands of fans in his lifetime and might need to prioritize...

I'm not sure what you mean here by "dealt with" but I assume you mean meeting them in person, or something more than just standing in front of them and doing a show, or selling them an album or two. In which case that sounds like an overestimate. I'm not sure how to go about guessing a number, but just for starters: Let's say that he does about fifty live shows each year; and let's say that he meets an average of about twenty fans at each live show. (That might be an overestimate. He rarely comes out to greet fans after the show, but sometimes he does. But I imagine he meets some new people backstage and while the stage is being set up, etc. - if only the people who work at the venue.) So that would be around 1000 fans per year. Then let's guess that he gets stopped on the street about ten times a week by fans wanting to talk to him; that's another 500 per year. Then maybe he deals with another ten fans a week while he's at Third Man Records, just in the course of running his business. So all that adds up to about 2000 fans per year; or about 20,000 fans over the course of about ten years. (Not counting the years before 2002, because he was not yet that famous then.) My guesses could be way off in either direction, of course; but I would still doubt that he's had personal interactions with "hundreds of thousands" of fans in the last ten years. Because that would mean tens of thousands of fans each year, or several hundreds of fans each week. Still, even if he has only met with 10,000 fans over the last ten years - about twenty per week - it must all turn into a blur. That level of fame seems like a terrible price to pay for making great music.

Last word here goes to Rush, a band that was recently getting dissed in another thread:

"LImelight"

Living on a lighted stage
Approaches the unreal
For those who think and feel
In touch with some reality
Beyond the gilded cage

Cast in this unlikely role
Ill-equipped to act
With insufficient tact
One must put up barriers
To keep oneself intact
. . .
Living in a fish eye lens
Caught in the camera eye
I have no heart to lie
I can't pretend a stranger
Is a long-awaited friend
. . .
All the world's indeed a stage
And we are merely players
Performers and portrayers
Each another's audience
Outside the gilded cage

[Musicsoul78]

@mojoryan: I have two little boys that adore Jack's music. They will be with me backstage at Lollapalooza and are very excited at the prospect of meeting Jack and talking to him. The thought that they will have their hearts broken like your little guy, makes me very sad. We should never be disappointed by our idols...especially at such a young age. So sorry that happened to him

@Kali: I agree, I certainly have my asshole days. But, if I treated my clients with the utter disrespect that Jack treated @jasonbubalo with, I would be fired without question. In turn, if any of my clients did the same thing to their fans, I would be making a call to their PR person and they would have their ass chewed out. I don't care what the situation is, you can't treat people like shit and act like you are above them just because you make amazing music and are adored by millions of people. @arewhyehen is right, this is a business, and Jack's actions were completely unacceptable.

[Kali Durga]

...I'm not saying that he's rude and surly because of that, because we just can't tell anything from a few isolated stories here and there. But we all have our moods, like people have been saying. My point here is just that he does not need to worry much about losing business. If he's a nice guy, it's probably because he's genuinely a nice guy, and not because he's just acting nice in order to keep his customers. And if he's in a bad mood for whatever reason, then that's probably genuine too. But you can't even begin to compare him with a jerk like Axl Rose, who has made an art of acting like a spoiled brat. ...

We have no idea what kind of stresses other people are under, most of the time; and no doubt dealing with fans' high hopes and expectations is one more stress on top of everything else. ... It must become quite maddening in the long run.

...Still, even if he has only met with 10,000 fans over the last ten years - about twenty per week - it must all turn into a blur. That level of fame seems like a terrible price to pay for making great music.

Exactly. One of the things that's stuck with me from the Christmas Q&A with Jack is his response to the question about what things he thinks would be impossible to achieve in his lifetime-- His reply included something about "change places with a sherpa and never be recognized". Bearing in mind that I've never met Jack, I find it difficult based on what I've read and heard about him, and on the loyalty of the people we know of who've worked with him for years and are his friends, to believe that he's truly an asshole. What he seems to be is a fairly private, perhaps somewhat moody, person whose choice of livelihood has forced him to deal with more of a demanding public than most of us ever will in our lifetimes. Do any of you who are looking at this from a business perspective really think that he anticipated the magnitude of what he deals with when he first strapped on a guitar and stepped on stage at the Magic Stick? If he declines to give more than what's delivered on albums and the stage, or slips up and is rude to a fan every now and then, how can anyone begrudge him that?

[woodisgood]

Famous person acts like a jerk every now and then? I'll alert the media. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz . . .

The absolute best thing about this whole thread is the title. Sounds like a self-published novel.

It baffles me we expect more from people who already give good things to us.

[rsimms3]

...I'm not saying that he's rude and surly because of that, because we just can't tell anything from a few isolated stories here and there. But we all have our moods, like people have been saying. My point here is just that he does not need to worry much about losing business. If he's a nice guy, it's probably because he's genuinely a nice guy, and not because he's just acting nice in order to keep his customers. And if he's in a bad mood for whatever reason, then that's probably genuine too. But you can't even begin to compare him with a jerk like Axl Rose, who has made an art of acting like a spoiled brat. ...

We have no idea what kind of stresses other people are under, most of the time; and no doubt dealing with fans' high hopes and expectations is one more stress on top of everything else. ... It must become quite maddening in the long run.

...Still, even if he has only met with 10,000 fans over the last ten years - about twenty per week - it must all turn into a blur. That level of fame seems like a terrible price to pay for making great music.

Exactly. One of the things that's stuck with me from the Christmas Q&A with Jack is his response to the question about what things he thinks would be impossible to achieve in his lifetime-- His reply included something about "change places with a sherpa and never be recognized". Bearing in mind that I've never met Jack, I find it difficult based on what I've read and heard about him, and on the loyalty of the people we know of who've worked with him for years and are his friends, to believe that he's truly an asshole. What he seems to be is a fairly private, perhaps somewhat moody, person whose choice of livelihood has forced him to deal with more of a demanding public than most of us ever will in our lifetimes. Do any of you who are looking at this from a business perspective really think that he anticipated the magnitude of what he deals with when he first strapped on a guitar and stepped on stage at the Magic Stick? If he declines to give more than what's delivered on albums and the stage, or slips up and is rude to a fan every now and then, how can anyone begrudge him that?

Yes, but no matter what Jack expected when he first strapped on his guitar, he now DEMANDS attention through his various inventions that are distributed through TMR, his producing, and his own musical creation. With great power comes great responsibility. There used to be a magazine dedicated to autographs, no idea if it’s still around or not, but they used to list the most difficult celebrities to get to sign items, I want to say Steve Martin was in the top 10. I wonder where Jack would rank in such a list these days…

[Kali Durga]

Yes, but no matter what Jack expected when he first strapped on his guitar, he now DEMANDS attention through his various inventions that are distributed through TMR, his producing, and his own musical creation.

Nope. There's a HUGE distinction to be made here and you specified it yourself-- He's not demanding personal attention, he's demanding attention for those various inventions, his producing, and his own musical creation. Not for himself.




How'd I get sucked into this? I need to get back to work.

[rsimms3]

Yes, but no matter what Jack expected when he first strapped on his guitar, he now DEMANDS attention through his various inventions that are distributed through TMR, his producing, and his own musical creation.

Nope. There's a HUGE distinction to be made here and you specified it yourself-- He's not demanding personal attention, he's demanding attention for those various inventions, his producing, and his own musical creation. Not for himself.




How'd I get sucked into this? I need to get back to work.

They are one in the same. If he didn't want attention for himself and TMR he'd simply produce and sell these items without the level of florish he does. Some consider TMR the most gimmicky record label around... Jack White is TMR in essence and being, Jack is "the third man". Either way at this point he can't avoid the attention either personally or professionally. After the Detroit show when he shook hands he actually engaged the group saying "Why are you guys so quiet? Let's hear it" to get the group to actively cheering for him. It's not all black and white, I'm sure there are times he loves the attention personally and other times he hates it. Who wouldn't?

[BluefordT]

Maybe we, or even our kids, shouldn't be IDOLizing a fallible human at all, just enjoy the music and move on.

I believe ALL humans have the "asshole" personality trait, but not all humans are a whole ass.

TYPE A personality? Type o-negative blood? who cares!

DO YOU LIKE THE MUSIC or just IDOLize THE MUSICIAN?

EDIT- Do you just want unique/limited things, to just have? or to "be cool-ER" or just want to make money off him/them/IT?

as Simmers said, "...it's not all black/white..."

[2crazikids]

I think Jack just has his moments, good and bad. Sometimes he's more receptive to folks other times he's not. I also had a rather unfulfilling moment with Jack as I am sure many others have also had ( I wasn't asking for an autograph, I wouldn't do that, not my thing). But that hasn't changed my love of the music, the shows, the experiences, and best of all: the WONDERFUL PEOPLE I have met and connected with since joining the vault, swirl, and LR.

FTR he was super sweet and nice to my pal Leah outside of TMR one day when he was filming with Gary Oldman and I got to hear him being sweet and nice to her on the phone...

[dcmak5]

6 more pages and I'm sure you guys will have this whole thing figured out

[DeeBee]

I'm sure there are times he loves the attention personally and other times he hates it.

Yep. The one is called "being on stage" and the other is called "being off stage."

Many of us would hate being on stage at any time, for any reason. Let's be glad that Jack doesn't feel that way. But if you get famous enough that people treat you as if you're always on stage - like you're carrying around an invisible pedestal with you or something - then it becomes like an unseen prison that you always have to worry about, wherever you go and whatever you do. That level of visibility and attention entails a huge loss of freedom.

One interesting thing in this thread was to learn that there is apparently some sort of etiquette about being in the backstage area, and not requesting autographs there. I'm sure many of us were totally unaware of that, as was the person who started this topic. Not having been there, though, it's not clear if that was the only reason he was abruptly escorted out. It might have been the haste with which he jumped immediately to the autograph request, or it might have been something else entirely. One thing that occurred to me is that if I were a celebrity, and an unknown person turned up backstage and while he was talking with me proceeded to reach into a large bag for some object - that would make me very nervous. (Mentally insert lyrics to "It's My Fault For Being Famous.")

From the first post in the thread:

I asked. 'Hey Jack, I hate to ask this, but would you mind signing Blunderbuss for me?' To which he replied, 'Yea sure, give me a second.' I was really excited, and said thanks. I had an Amoeba bag with blunderbuss in it, along with some other things, kind of like a man purse, and I started looking for my sharpie. Before I could find it, Jacks assistant?, or someone, tapped me on the shoulder and said they had to escort me out.

Actually, I would not be too surprised if they had a rule that large bags are not allowed backstage at all. Most of the shows that I've been to, they were pretty thorough about searching through any large bags or other packages before you go into the venue. Ostensibly it was to prevent people bringing in video cameras, although it was clear that there were also safety and security concerns. (One time when I brought a little token of appreciation to a show - a box of candy with a card inside, that I asked them to take backstage for me - the guards insisted that I open the box right then and there and show them the contents while they stood several feet away, before they would even take it.) So it would not surprise me too much if security guards are alert to people reaching into large bags while talking to Jack, or if it's a standing rule to escort someone out immediately if the guards see them doing that. Again, I have no idea, and probably that had nothing to do with it. But if someone is planning to ask for an autograph, then it might be a good idea to have a pen already in hand, so you don't have to reach into your bag for one while Jack or other band members are standing there waiting.

[theeradicaleclectic]

Once again i could repost everything that rsimms is saying and agree with it and i could also pull those quotes from Dee Bee and Kali and discuss what it means to manage credit units associated with your clientele as a part of keeping in mind that all of those customers/clients/fans/dollars are associated with faces and hands and people who show up with a personal connection to something that you as an individual made and did and sent around the globe 40 times to make sure that they felt your feelings... but i do whole heartedly agree with the 'big bag' issue you bring up there DeeBee

but i think i will leave that statement just as it is to make the point that Jack is the third man who tauts seventh son power so he is asking for a lot of 'grinnin in his own face' regardless of whatever feeling he has to manage in his own right... i dont begrudge him this or assign him or any other celebrity any particular expectation like some do because its covered by what BluefordT has to say below as my 'quote of choice on this page'... that being said... i do have expectations of elected politicians spending my tax dollar and also making decisions or passing laws in my name with my money which is not the same as electing to buy a product from a guy with the shiniest shoes in some graveyard some day... its not my thing but i do love the guy for all that

Maybe we, or even our kids, shouldn't be IDOLizing a fallible human at all, just enjoy the music and move on.

I believe ALL humans have the "asshole" personality trait, but not all humans are a whole ass.

TYPE A personality? Type o-negative blood? who cares!

DO YOU LIKE THE MUSIC or just IDOLize THE MUSICIAN?

EDIT- Do you just want unique/limited things, to just have? or to "be cool-ER" or just want to make money off him/them/IT?

as Simmers said, "...it's not all black/white..."

Nope... its not all black and white but i get to at least find someone in this world that can spell out many of my feelings in his lyrics and his guitar licks like nobody's business or promote bands and musicians that i find just as interesting in other ways

sure i might try to talk to the guy or nearly ignore him like i did last time we came face to face because i had my priorities at the moment but its not like i am going to expect his signature or begrudge his own set of limitations... worst case scenario i might have to tell the guy off and ''take him down to the police & charge him with assault''' like any other asshole might deserve but its not likely to happen given the fact that i dont believe in 'asking for autographs and getting a picture to prove something'... if jack wants to give me something and/or do business with me to appreciate what i put out there in the world publically then there wont be any 'take... take... take...' and this goes for bootlegging types of situations as well because its not my right to grab it