White Swirl

Pls file under personal opinion likely expressed kinda awkwardly. (And apologies for the long post. I try to avoid 'em.)

With all the fan sites (freaky or not-so-freaky) scrutinizing every word, lyric, personal relationship, hairstyle, pair of pants, and so on---not to mention some demands for rights to record or photograph at shows even when explicitly and repeatedly prohibited ahead of time and, even better, requested really nicely from the stage that one not do it---has got to suck, no matter how big a celeb you are, how much money you have, how many groupies throw themselves at you. How on earth *do you* stay authentic to your self, if you’re expected to be rainbows and skittles to everyone all the time. The fact that it’s even a topic here with personality musings on a man few if any of us actually know is an example.

I ain’t blameless on this at all---it’s so easy to get sucked into---but I hope I can try to understand the hero worship and not confuse it with the human. With thousands of people trying to score a pound of flesh from someone’s soul all the time, it's gotta be hard for the hero or the human to have anything left to give.

If anyone can get out to shake hands, say hello, and do some autographs while prepping for a show (he was on Vault chat just a couple hours before, what, Eugene? amazing) or *after giving everything at one*, that’s just the world's most awesome gravy. Jack White doesn’t owe me anything personally, but I thank him from the bottom of my heart for sharing his music.

cmelo wrote:Pls file under personal opinion likely expressed kinda awkwardly. (And apologies for the long post. I try to avoid 'em.)

With all the fan sites (freaky or not-so-freaky) scrutinizing every word, lyric, personal relationship, hairstyle, pair of pants, and so on---not to mention some demands for rights to record or photograph at shows even when explicitly and repeatedly prohibited ahead of time and, even better, requested really nicely from the stage that one not do it---has got to suck, no matter how big a celeb you are, how much money you have, how many groupies throw themselves at you. How on earth *do you* stay authentic to your self, if you’re expected to be rainbows and skittles to everyone all the time. The fact that it’s even a topic here with personality musings on a man few if any of us actually know is an example.

I ain’t blameless on this at all---it’s so easy to get sucked into---but I hope I can try to understand the hero worship and not confuse it with the human. With thousands of people trying to score a pound of flesh from someone’s soul all the time, it's gotta be hard for the hero or the human to have anything left to give.

If anyone can get out to shake hands, say hello, and do some autographs while prepping for a show (he was on Vault chat just a couple hours before, what, Eugene? amazing) or *after giving everything at one*, that’s just the world's most awesome gravy. Jack White doesn’t owe me anything personally, but I thank him from the bottom of my heart for sharing his music.

totally genuine response... thats awesome c.

the entire 'American Idol' thing has always been a huge turn off for me just to push the conversation slightly beyond Jack as some specific entertainer with some kind of peculiar commitment to his fans... your mention of the vault conversations is key also

its hard to do anything other than let the guy be himself but be damned sure of who it is that one idolizes as a fan to begin with

pretty obviously his lyrics and fierceness of music might indicate that there will be times when things dont go well or as planned

BluefordT wrote:Maybe we, or even our kids, shouldn't be IDOLizing a fallible human at all, just enjoy the music and move on.

I believe ALL humans have the "asshole" personality trait, but not all humans are a whole ass.

TYPE A personality? Type o-negative blood? who cares!

DO YOU LIKE THE MUSIC or just IDOLize THE MUSICIAN?

EDIT- Do you just want unique/limited things, to just have? or to "be cool-ER" or just want to make money off him/them/IT?

as Simmers said, "...it's not all black/white..."

Totally agree. Well, not necessarily that ALL humans have the "asshole" personality trait, but definitely with the rest of it. Conner never idolized Jack, but definitely was enamoured with a certain skill-set, and we all attribute (or maybe project) personality traits onto those we think highly of. All in all, I think it was good for him; it was a growth experience. He's even wiser for it. And when it comes down to it, I don't think Jack an asshat in general...as has been said OVER AND OVER....we ALL have our moments. Do I think it was an ashat move on his part to behave that way to a child? Yup. Do I like Jack any less for it? I only know of Jack what Jack wants me to know...well, that plus some deep understanding of the human critter.

mojoryan wrote:...and we all attribute (or maybe project) personality traits onto those we think highly of. ...

The projection part cannot be stressed enough. It contributes to so many of the expectations we have of such people.

Musicsoul78 wrote:@mojoryan: I have two little boys that adore Jack's music. They will be with me backstage at Lollapalooza and are very excited at the prospect of meeting Jack and talking to him. The thought that they will have their hearts broken like your little guy, makes me very sad. We should never be disappointed by our idols...especially at such a young age. So sorry that happened to him

I appreciate at that, but it's really ok; Conner is not quite a "normal" 12 year old. If you're kids aren't thick skinned, you may want to consider whether or not you want to take the chance of approaching him. Maybe ask someone (one of his peeps) if Jack's in a decent mood, and if your kids can meet him (obviously keep it on the down-low from your kids...just in case). Just a thought.

Good luck. And don't forget; kids are a hell of a lot resilient than we often ive them credit for.

Kali Durga wrote:

mojoryan wrote:...and we all attribute (or maybe project) personality traits onto those we think highly of. ...

The projection part cannot be stressed enough. It contributes to so many of the expectations we have of such people.

You know it. I'll try to refrain from waxing all Buddhist right now, but our projection and our expectations are nearly the only cause of our suffering.

mojoryan wrote:... our projection and our expectations are nearly the only cause of our suffering.

As a fellow student of The Way, I'll simply say-- Indeed.

another 10 pages, I'm sure this will go somewhere. just keep it up

Where does it need to go? Perhaps you could provide some guidance.

dcmak5 wrote:another 10 pages, I'm sure this will go somewhere. just keep it up

Before 10 pages take the clue: A metaphorical trap seems like what is happening as a little go round of philosophical head gaming

This next bit of conversation is for all those who want to preach and teach 'the way' to others while still on the path... we know that even buddhists teach the idea that if you see the buddha on the road then that means your 'buddhahood' isnt working very well because the whole notion of projecting ones thoughts and values onto others as what you see clearly is not going to get rid of any radiation in the air nor is it going to raise responsible children who wipe their own ass and clean up their own dishes... sorry

When it comes to Jack White i would say he is exhibiting traits of a Sage which are different than the Saints that we know as the Buddhas with all their Sutras and how one must suffer because it is the way... Just have to say that you folks can suffer all you like but i dont think one should just accept that as ones lot in life and as the leaf floating down the stream with no brain/no hands

Honestly... we can leave the Karma and Affinity for drawing to you that which you need concepts at the door when it comes to assholes and Buddhist wisdom... some people just go for power points and prey on the innocent that they feel they want to lord over... this is one reason why i think Buddhism in and of itself is just another 'ism' that facades the notions of responsibility and awareness for natural cycles because it gets all 'other worldly' when its time to dig the damn hoe in and plant the seeds...

If you keep studying suffering then that is what you will get... Taoism is not Buddhism for this very reason and is much more a notion of working with nature as well as defending oneself if needed... Taoism is the true way of nature and balance and learning not to repeat cycles that you dont want/need to be stuck in while Buddhism just teaches more suffering... time to evolve kids...

Oh, seriously. Jack is neither a saint nor a sage, nor should we expect him to be. He's a great musician and songwriter and rock star, which is reason enough for him to be an idol to many fans. It's natural to be excited and fascinated with someone who can pull that degree of intensity and feeling out of his soul time and again. So I don't see any real problem with that, providing that we recognize that it's kind of a one-way relationship. He simply is not capable of giving each and every fan all of the time and attention they might like; no human being would be capable of that, with so many people clamoring after them.

I watched a bit of the queen's jubilee stuff going on in England this last weekend, and was reflecting how many people seem to adore the queen, and how gracious she seems to be about it. But they don't go pestering her for autographs and photo-ops and whatnot, and they don't try to interview her and get her to listen to their demo tapes. Indeed, her handlers carefully shield her from the public most of the time. I'm sure that most people who love the queen are not offended that she does not have time for each and every one of them, personally. They realize that she has a few other things going on that she needs to pay attention to. And even though a rock star leads a very different kind of life than a head of state, it's still true that they have lots of other things going on that claim their time and attention.

In previous pages we were hearing from people who felt that it was just Jack White's job to be accommodating to his fans, and that no matter what he happens to be feeling at the time, he should just suck it up and make sure the customers are satisfied. I wanted to get back to that issue, because it got me thinking.

Sometimes when I'm at a retail store - say Target or Home Depot or even a grocery store - I will ask a clerk for help in finding some item, or ask for advice on product use, hardware, etc. And usually they try to be polite and helpful, even if they don't know or can't help. But sometimes I unwittingly happen to catch someone just as their work shift is ending, and they're heading for the door. In that case they might give me an answer if it's a quickie; but usually they will just inform me that they are off duty, their shift has ended, and I need to ask someone else. Relevant concepts here, I think: "Off duty" and "the work shift has ended." Those employees who are so gracious and helpful while they are on the job are not so eager to be pestered once their work shift has ended.

Now, just imagine if they wore their Home Depot uniform everywhere, and people could recognize them; so that anywhere they went, people felt free to accost them with questions and complaints and requests for help: "Hey, can you tell me what aisle the plumbing fixtures are on?" and "Do I need to sand this wood or use a sealant before I stain it?" and "I bought this power drill just the other day, and it's already jamming up!" In other words, everyone regarded them as always being On-Duty, All The Time. Never having a day or an hour off work - or at least not when they're out in public. That would be some kind of living hell, wouldn't it? No time off work at all?

And isn't that just what fans are doing to Jack, when they assume that he should always be available to deal graciously with his fans - give autographs and photo ops and etc.? It's as if he is expected to be Always On Duty - No Time Off, a work shift that never ends.

Maybe he feels that once he has finished doing a show - and he clearly does give it his all, and it's a very intense and exhausting thing - maybe he feels that his work shift is OVER when he leaves the stage, and that he should just be allowed to relax and go on his way peacefully. And can anyone really begrudge him that?

Reposting this, because it kind of got lost in the shuffle:

DeeBee wrote:

rsimms3 wrote: I'm sure there are times he loves the attention personally and other times he hates it.

Yep. The one is called "being on stage" and the other is called "being off stage."

Kali Durga wrote:Where does it need to go? Perhaps you could provide some guidance.

Over to LR...

Grimtale wrote:

Kali Durga wrote:Where does it need to go? Perhaps you could provide some guidance.

Over to LR...

I concur.

this thread is nothing but overcomplicating the relationship between a fan and a celebrity