Question for UK vault members.

[quixoticwax]

I know that as buyers we take full responsibility for any customs charges, but TMR should have alerted us to any increase in declared value so that we could make an informed choice.

I'll be emailing them to find out what's going on and whether or not I can continue my subscription.

[cwja]

Not really a mistake, that's close to the actual value, but a deviation from what they've done in the past...

If you've been a Vault member for several years you've benefited from them repeatedly underdeclaring the value, which has saved you plenty in the past. You're ahead of the game. Suck it up, make sure they're aware of the issue, thank them for being willing to risk committing fraud on your behalf in the past and move on.

As I've said, I think neither 18 nor 54 is probably accurate, although there is significant discussion on the other thread supporting that $40 is surely the maximum. My feeling is that it is an error - I don't think TMR meant to declare at $54, and I think it's an overstatement of the assumed intended value ($18) and the 'true' value if you think that's higher than $18.

I think we should steer clear of the 'F' word! I'm sure TMR have considered their obligations and can support the values they declare.

I suppose for anyone for whom this is their first package, it's a tougher one to take. I do think you're right though, we just need to accept this one and move on, hoping the next package is valued at $18 or similar.

I agree that it was an error, but $54 is closer to $40 than $18 is. My point was that, after years of underdeclaring by more than 50%, they screwed up on one package.

No one, not TMR or anyone who purchase these, values them at $18. Falsifying a customs form is fraud and it is a crime in the US. Do they usually mess with charging people? No. Do I do it on a regular basis when shipping to friends outside of the US? Yes. My point was that the risk lies with the person mailing things out, not the person receiving it. No matter how small the risk, they're still the ones taking it to save people overseas money. Granted, it's not a completely altruistic action. It helps their sales to do so.

I would make sure that someone at TMR knows about this. It appears the $54 value was not their intent and they'll most likely fix it for future shipments. Just seems that people should be more grateful for the 5 years of saving you money vs the one package they screwed up on, especially when the "screw up" is actually closer to reality.

[Tojot7]

Having already paid for my #21 I'll stay on board to get that one.

If it's Taxed the same way I'll consider it my last "hoorar" and will only pop back in for very special packages (probably limited to 1 per year)

Shame

[gdm]

I think you would feel different if you lived overseas

Or under it.

My daughter just saw this as I was reading and now I have to watch the movie. Thanks a lot Todd.
Carry on.

[Jamie]

I agree that it was an error, but $54 is closer to $40 than $18 is.

Not necessarily, you're assuming that a Platinum level access to the Vault is the same price as the Gold. Gold level is $20 and gets you access to the chat, articles and presales, that's all. Platinum gets you those plus access to the Vault store, early entry possibilities and a few other things like giveaways etc that are often limited to Platinum only subscribers. So what does that make it worth, at least $30? Some could argue it's at least worth double the value of Gold. So that would put the total 'cost' of the records much closer to $18 than $54.

It's also dishonest to compare these to the costs of the standard releases or the variants. Both of those, especially the variants, are pressed in far fewer numbers which means a higher manufacturing cost per item for Third Man, which equates to a higher retail price. If they're pressing the Vaults in numbers anywhere up to the rumoured 5-10,000 they're going to producing these for far less than it costs them to make 150 hand-pressed tris. They also have the benefit of presale, being able to press the required amount up front and not be left over with a ton of excess stock.

You also can't adequately compare the packages to the sale of the individual items on the member's store, the packages are priced up per bundle so that your only option is to buy all three, even if you only want one. This makes the retail price less than buying them all individually, should they ever be available in that manner.

There's nothing fraudulent going on here either. It'd be fraud if the invooice inside the package said $54 but the declaration was for $18. As far as I remember, the invoice has never even shown a cost, indicating that these are indeed gifts, or perks, as a result of signing up for a Platinum Vault membership. You can easily support this viewpoint by the fact that the price for the subscription remains the same, regardless of what or how many items we get each quarter. We didn't pay more when we got a colour changing shirt the same way that we didn't pay less when our third item was three postcards.

[Alabama Woody]

I agree that it was an error, but $54 is closer to $40 than $18 is.

Not necessarily, you're assuming that a Platinum level access to the Vault is the same price as the Gold. Gold level is $20 and gets you access to the chat, articles and presales, that's all. Platinum gets you those plus access to the Vault store, early entry possibilities and a few other things like giveaways etc that are often limited to Platinum only subscribers. So what does that make it worth, at least $30? Some could argue it's at least worth double the value of Gold. So that would put the total 'cost' of the records much closer to $18 than $54.

It's also dishonest to compare these to the costs of the standard releases or the variants. Both of those, especially the variants, are pressed in far fewer numbers which means a higher manufacturing cost per item for Third Man, which equates to a higher retail price. If they're pressing the Vaults in numbers anywhere up to the rumoured 5-10,000 they're going to producing these for far less than it costs them to make 150 hand-pressed tris. They also have the benefit of presale, being able to press the required amount up front and not be left over with a ton of excess stock.

You also can't adequately compare the packages to the sale of the individual items on the member's store, the packages are priced up per bundle so that your only option is to buy all three, even if you only want one. This makes the retail price less than buying them all individually, should they ever be available in that manner.

There's nothing fraudulent going on here either. It'd be fraud if the invooice inside the package said $54 but the declaration was for $18. As far as I remember, the invoice has never even shown a cost, indicating that these are indeed gifts, or perks, as a result of signing up for a Platinum Vault membership. You can easily support this viewpoint by the fact that the price for the subscription remains the same, regardless of what or how many items we get each quarter. We didn't pay more when we got a colour changing shirt the same way that we didn't pay less when our third item was three postcards.

Well said. That's what I was trying to say earlier.

TMR has worked hard to "build" the Vault. I hate to see this mix up cost them a lot of members. I hope it's ironed out for everyone across the ponds !

[cwja]

Using a value of $40, $18 is $22 less while $54 is $14 more. $22 > $14, therefore $54 is closer to $40 than $22 is. That was my point, not that the actual valuation should be $40. You can argue all day about what the valuation should be. To me, it's $50 because I don't give a shit about anything but the records. Others may actually put a value on the other Vault stuff. Fair enough.

The package we're talking about is #20. Cost of a regular Lazaretto is $20. You're saying it's reasonable to conclude that the special limited and colored edition is less? Should be $18? That the cost for making a split color, in a lower quantity than the regular, is less? Or does the 7" and the book that come with it somehow devalue the Vault version of the LP?

Stop it. Everyone knows that the value of these is over $18. Nineteen times they've done you a solid by under declaring the value. The one time they screw up people start talking about compensation and claiming they're paying $42 every three months for the Vault chat, Novelties Store and early entry. Good grief.

[Alabama Woody]

We are beating a dead horse here. Basically Ben B. Said himself that they declared the normal $18 value.......as usual.

Due to how the forms were filled out/ interpreted ......other countries are multiplying it by 3. Hence the $54 value.

TMR has deemed that part of the Vault as $18. Evidently they fill comfortable doing this.

So hell. That's how I read it.
TMR can't help postage overseas doubled. That's s legitimate fee. They have valued the vinyl in a way to help out. It just got screwed up here lately. I bet simply because of how they are filling out the forms now.

Do I feel the records are a major part of my vault sub ....sure. But pre sales and early entry are more important to me when Jack is on tour or a big name comes play live at TMR.

There's plenty of ways to split up the value of the vault.

[rsimms3]

We are beating a dead horse here. Basically Ben B. Said himself that they declared the normal $18 value.......as usual.

Due to how the forms were filled out/ interpreted ......other countries are multiplying it by 3. Hence the $54 value.

TMR has deemed that part of the Vault as $18. Evidently they fill comfortable doing this.

So hell. That's how I read it.
TMR can't help postage overseas doubled. That's s legitimate fee. They have valued the vinyl in a way to help out. It just got screwed up here lately. I bet simply because of how they are filling out the forms now.

Do I feel the records are a major part of my vault sub ....sure. But pre sales and early entry are more important to me when Jack is on tour or a big name comes play live at TMR.

There's plenty of ways to split up the value of the vault.

No, other countries are not interpreting the value, the value is on the customs declaration label as printed out by/at TMR. Several pictures show the form indicating a value of $54 so it is something that happened at TMR, not at customs in other countries. It is the responsibility of the shipper to indicate value, customs takes the value indicated by the original shipper and applies (in some cases doesn't apply) the correct import fees. Declaration of $18 = no fees, anything over $20 = fees. TMR should check whatever program they utilize for creating shipping labels for some sort of glitch be it Stamps.com, Pitney Bowes, etc. Somewhere between when TMR entered the value and the label getting printed, the value declared changed to $54.

[Alabama Woody]

We are beating a dead horse here. Basically Ben B. Said himself that they declared the normal $18 value.......as usual.

Due to how the forms were filled out/ interpreted ......other countries are multiplying it by 3. Hence the $54 value.

TMR has deemed that part of the Vault as $18. Evidently they fill comfortable doing this.

So hell. That's how I read it.
TMR can't help postage overseas doubled. That's s legitimate fee. They have valued the vinyl in a way to help out. It just got screwed up here lately. I bet simply because of how they are filling out the forms now.

Do I feel the records are a major part of my vault sub ....sure. But pre sales and early entry are more important to me when Jack is on tour or a big name comes play live at TMR.

There's plenty of ways to split up the value of the vault.

No, other countries are not interpreting the value, the value is on the customs declaration label as printed out by/at TMR. Several pictures show the form indicating a value of $54 so it is something that happened at TMR, not at customs in other countries. It is the responsibility of the shipper to indicate value, customs takes the value indicated by the original shipper and applies (in some cases doesn't apply) the correct import fees. Declaration of $18 = no fees, anything over $20 = fees. TMR should check whatever program they utilize for creating shipping labels for some sort of glitch be it Stamps.com, Pitney Bowes, etc. Somewhere between when TMR entered the value and the label getting printed, the value declared changed to $54.

Exactly ... again, that is what I have been trying to say. TMR needs to admit that it got screwed up along the way and fix it so they don't lose all these folks as Vault members. I don't see any refunds but admitting it got screwed up and trying to fix it before next shipment would be a good idea. I don't think an apology is necessary but couldn't hurt but fixing the issue and letting folks know its fixed would go a long way.

[quixoticwax]

Agreed.

[monkeyman159]

Just emailed TMR to see if they can send my three vault packages
together as this would save £16 in handling fees they charge. If they
Cant will cancel one package that I have for trading and just keep
the two packages. One for my TMR collection and one for my white
stripes collection. Still awaiting my customs cards with the charges
on it but looking at £55.71 extra.

[Kaber]

If it is anything like shipping from uk to us then postage on
packages over 2kg goes up substantially so not sure
combining packages is possible.

[Bikedo]

I think its really crappy. I understand people's frustration completely. I just think it is being dispatched incorrectly.

@UKers, when you bought your first package, did you expect to have to pay customs fees (possibly from experience of buying other things from over sees.)
If you did expect this were you relieved when it arrived with such a low value on it, which saved you money?

Ben, your false compassion is heart warming.

[quixoticwax]

Ben, your false compassion is heart warming.

He even took the time to PM me asking the same question. It gives me a fuzzy feeling inside knowing that he personally reached out to me.